Forum - View topicJellyfish Can't Swim in the Night (TV).
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Eilavel
Posts: 34 |
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I get this, and they could be more considerate and inclusive. But Kiuis communication approach is just to demand attention. There no mutuality and its no surprise such an approach totally fails as you age, regardless of the cringe factor the show seems interested in. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23797 |
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Episode 3
Interesting discussion about Kiui, folks. My own take is that the show wasn't trying to establish that Kiui was blameless for the social situation she found herself in. I think we are supposed to recognize that her approach to others was fraught and that further she is responsible for shutting down in the face of its failure to connect. Personally, I still feel bad for her that there wasn't at least one person like Yoru in her new school who was sympatico to what she was putting out there, but oh well. Brighter days ahead now that the gang's all here. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4088 |
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I guess people have really stuck this show into "Cute girls doing cute things" and refuse to budge on that.
"Have you tried not being cringey?" |
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Eilavel
Posts: 34 |
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I never considered it that. Tomozaki has many flaws but I've no reason to believe that the same author would aim for that kind of material, even if its not complex it will at least be trying to say something regardless of the 4 girls cast. Kiuis presentation just had her behave in a really obnoxious way and the tone of the show seemed to feel it was much less so. Still, I suspect the arc over the series will be much more interesting and I don't think its a bad set up, its just a bit of a flub here for me in the transition from backstory to moving forwards without much self-reflection. But I don't think it means Kiuis arc won't be interesting. I'll certainly be more mindful of gender related signals about them going forwards, as that would be an interesting direction. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15480 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Being obnoxious or not is an interesting topic, and maybe the make or break of Kiui's character. My personal opinion is that obnoxious comes from putting down or trying to make others lesser than, which I don't think Kiui's quite hit, as regardless of her "main character" thing she has seemed rather positive on pulling other people up. I don't think she lied about being an accomplished student to make Yoru feel lesser than for not as being as great as that, I think she likes pumping others up, when she herself feels pumped up. But maybe some people would see her as obnoxious? Her need to announce her identity. Maybe even that she died her hair an unnatural shade of pink as an effort to show her individuality, would be seen as obnoxious attention seeking. Interestingly 3 of the 4 teens have died their hair, all of which possibly touching on what I have heard of some Japanese mentality about individuals with different coloured hair. All the same I don't agree on some judgements on how some people are labelled as obnoxious. Especially as I am familiar with certain communities that have faced not being able to go along with what might be considered normal, and often time a deliberate bucking of what is considered normal or polite behaviour serves of forcing open a space where people can belong. She is even a Vtuber of all things, and I know that sort of strong personality, with some empathy, can have some impact on people. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 34 |
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I'm referring to her declarative and egocentric communication style, especially with her classmates. It should be expected acting that way does not connect with people. Like, we've all been in school. At least in my experience, she would be taken as genuinely bizarre, girls school or not. Heck, even in anime club it would be a lot.
That in itself is fine, its more that we switch from that straight into the Amaterasu dance and the framing in the episode felt to me like it put the blame wholly externally. The rest is all just to taste and no problem; the lying is dealt with in episode in full. And its not like reflection can't come later; or that she can't learn a new communication strategy without self-reflection. I don't think Kiuis arc is complete. I think it was just clumsy as they are trying to fit a lot of backstory into one episode and then also pull her into the group so the tone shifts abruptly. I'm only talking about the episodes framing around her school issues; I've no problem with Kiuis relationship with the group, which makes total sense. From my point of view, I meant it as a relatively minor criticism. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23797 |
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As I mentioned above, I disagree with this interpretation. It's true that the episode did not make this explicit, i.e. there was no character saying to Kiui, "well, you know, actually..." but I still didn't get the impression the show was trying to say to viewers, "zomg, isn't it just terrible how these awful girls at school are treating poor, blameless Kiui?" And as you say, it's possible that her arc isn't complete so we may see some self-reflection on her part about where things went wrong at first. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1954 |
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@Eilavel I get where you are coming from and on the discussion as a whole I have to agree that neither side is blameless or the sole cause of why communication broke down. Yes, people should be open to others who behave differently and have more difficulty expressing themselves/in a different manner. That said, you as a person also have the responsibility to look at yourself and think about how you express yourself to others and how they pre/receive it.
If your classmates find your way of communication unpleasant then they are not forced to acquiesce to your whims nor are you forced to change, the result is you not at all fitting in though. Thinking back to the past I had a classmate who was argumentative and obnoxious to an extreme in wanting to be right/everyone agreeing and demanded her environment to adapt to her. It does not work that way and you can not expect people to wring themselves into corners to facilitate you. Interesting discussion btw. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4088 |
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We don't know why Kiui stopped going to school, only that they did. What we do know is the fake Kiui that was built for Yoru is that of the perfect girl, so good that even the girls of an all girls prep school thinks she's the best.
Another identity Kiui created was that of a male V-Tuber... do we agree that male v-Tubers earn less money or am I alone here? You can play games and still present as a girl so... yeah... People are too fixated on the cringe of a grade schooler introduction on the first day of middle school but I'm ignoring that; We don't know what led to Kiui's final decision to stop going to school or even when, we just know there were a number of factors leading up to it... none of it cringe related I think. The two girls Yoru talked to proved that; Kiui's known more for stopping going to school than anything else. Scratch that, Kiui's tears should be enough to show how dire Kiui's situation is. Interestingly, it's the exact opposite of Kano's story with the idol group. We don't know what led up to it yet, but we know on what day she threw a punch and when she "graduated". |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23797 |
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@ Animegomaniac - I have no idea why you are choosing to ignore what you call the "cringe" of Kiui's disastrous self-introduction and the subsequent discovery that nobody at her school shared her interests or cared about her attempts at animation. Those seem to be pretty evident reasons for Kiui deciding that going to school wasn't for her. It's already been established - at least in my mind and others who post in this thread - that this show does not trade in subtlety (the whole "come out of your cave" thing from episode three was another example of this) so again I'm puzzled why you are reluctant to accept what the show has presented at face value.
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3892 |
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I'm pretty sure that Kiui's V-Tuber identity is female considering that the character is wearing a skirt and is sporting what would most likely be considered a feminine hairstyle when you look closely at her avatar. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4088 |
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With that logic, Kiui's a girl who dresses like a guy which makes Kiui a guy?
But you did make me look through episode 3 to confirm that, yes, Kiui is wearing shorts under the oversized t shirt. Kiui is busty while Nox is flat if high school student president Nox is a girl, but that sort of thinking is a tr... and seeing how the word "trap" popped into my head, I think I know what Kiui did with Nox. It's certainly an angle to push. Do I think high school president Nox is male while middle school president Kiui is a girl just so Kiui can keep her lies straight? I'm willing to bet it's where it started, simple lies. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 34 |
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Bringing in gender issues would certainly be interesting, but nothing about the show suggests its operating on the level of subtlety where the female presenting avatar is actually a male avatar. Like, maybe, but the show has so far been extremely straightfoward so until they go into it I'm not reading in levels of 3d chess where the girl vtuber avatar is actually a dude. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4088 |
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Me when I watched the episode: "Goodbye 'sekai' is such a cute sendoff. I wonder why it doesn't come up in V Tuber videos?"
Me later: "OH. Goodbye world as a sendoff. Yikes." It's only cute because it rhymes, what it's saying is more typical in certain notes. Episode 3 is a bottomless sea of details, I haven't even talked about the creeper yet or what he was staring at... or what Kiui felt he was staring at. Reverse POVs are a little too situational at times, I don't know if it showed what he was looking at or what Kiui felt he was looking at. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 34 |
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Well, this week seems to confirm it was a cringe issue.
Messy big sister is a standard trope but works as a foil for the group. I didn't expect the failed nepo baby angle and think thats a really good direction. Meis sex creeping isn't my favourite but it now reduced to a momentary side gag, I'm guessing for the duration. Great to see the whole group together and starting to bond and be honest with each other. Working out to be a nice little show, currently reminds me most of A Place further than the Universe, which similarly was a topic and drama focused 4-girl show; but this is a little better so far. |
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